1. I'd rather not blame at all. Unlike you, I've proposed an alternative to the original problem, catching someone for plagiarism. I think setting a task or punishment for the student that will both educate as well as reprimand.

Being expelled educates as well as reprimands. It teaches the student that cheating will not be tolerated. One reaps what they sow.

2. When you're done yapping from your high horse, come on down here where everyone makes mistakes, and it's possible to throw the bathwater out without tossing the baby.

You're right. People don't intentionally plagiarize. It's as common as tripping or shoplifting. Something one can't help.

3. Try to remember that teachers are human beings, not machines. I said I -expect- teaching from them, but that doesn't mean that nothing else can come from them. In fact, it's impossible to avoid many lessons that occur naturally in the teacher-student interaction. Lessons like "I'm the boss and you're my little bitch" -OR- "I respect you because you respect me."

Yes. I'm sure this teacher treated her students like bitches for punishing them when they do a really bad thing.

4. You are comparing school with work. There is no point in addressing this straw man argument.

School doesn't have work, expectations, or rules like work does?

What's bothering me is the idea that somehow the teacher is a bad person for disciplining somebody for a serious offense (and no, it's not the teacher's responsibility to raise one's children), and that the plagiarist is some victim who didn't intend to plagiarize and didn't understand why plagiarism is wrong. If a college student actually still doesn't understand what's wrong with plagiarism, then perhaps that student should be sent back to the third grade because he clearly is too stupid for his own good.

Ask yourself if you've done anything to help that cheating student, or if you've just scored an easy vengeance on a helpless target. There are plenty of ways you can punish for wrongdoing that are object lessons (trust me, I know) and will result in a punished (accountable) student as well as an educated one.

First, I wouldn't call her "helpless" as you do. Second, I go over plagiarism the second day in class, every class, every term. I talk about its effects, about authors (i.e. Ambrose) whose credibility can get ruined even if it's accidental; I talk about the students' own credibility and integrity, and how this isn't something they want haunting them the rest of their lives. I talk about ways to avoid it (don't copy and paste from Internet, even if it's a quote) and I talk about ways to use sites like Sparknotes that give you background information on characters, especially in older literature, rather than using them to regurgitate what they say (i.e. plagiarize). Matt, maybe you should've taken my class and you would've learned sooner.

Angloesque - My main base is in Gloucestershire. Where abouts are you thinking of settling after your marriage?

Sir Peter--I think I've been to a cathedral around there...Gloucester Cathedral? or was it an abbey?...it's been awhile. I'm pretty sure it was a cathedral. First one I'd been to, actually, and that was back when I thought you pronounced it "Glow-chester-SHIRE."

Unfortunately, we'd probably settle in London, though I'm hoping for one of the better boroughs. I am really not a city person, but he is and I figure we can live urbanly (urbanely?) while we're young and settle more to my liking when we're old. Anyway, we won't know for a couple months. In the meantime, cheers. (I really picked that up while I was over there. I hope that doesn't make me a lame American....)

Well Angloesque, I gotta say, maybe I should've taken your class earlier.

I think my responses are more in response to the righteousness of folks like SuperBaby. Perhaps I pointed fingers at you that I shouldn't have. I'm not sure what response would be reasonable here. As far as I can see, the commentary here is dizzyingly self-righteous and almost giddy with eager excitement about this girl being punished. My feeling was that somewhere between expulsion and laughing the whole thing off there was a middle ground. I still feel this way. This girl gets expelled - rightfully so - and now what? Sure she paid the price for her actions, as all the folks here seem to see, but does she see it? Will she find herself at some other school plagiarizing more carefully? SuperBaby, don't bother responding, I know your black and white view all too well.

Perhaps a follow-up assignment, twice as large, that must have at least five separate references per page. Maybe a paper on plagiarism?

People do need to consider the various levels of Plagiarism. A student who quotes from other work and either forgets or purposely fails to reference the quotations is usually given a warning. It's when students copy large segments of work in a cut and paste fashion than serious consequences occur. No student is unaware of the seriousness of this offense in university. It's cheating and if done in an exam situation should be strongly punished.

The problem is the system itself where the mark obtained in the exam is more important than the education the student recieves. This puts great pressure on students to look at previous answer to similar questions and memorise responses, rather than applying their own analysis to the question. Their response do not have to be intellectually original, just prove that they have intellectual capacity to analyse the question and the issue it raises. A student who cannot achieve that has indeed failed and an automatic F grade is deserved.

Paul.

Matt, I like your ideas. Were it inadvertant plagiarism, I might do something like that. I agree about the levels of plagiarism and I've seen them all. Blatant is what I fail people for; inadvertant is where an in-class punishment (and not an easy one) is more advisable. At the same time, though, prevention is key, and I hope I adequately warn my students about it.

Solitair, you make a great point. I hate regurgitation and hopefully my students are learning not to. On our final assignment I purposely discussed the text very little and the concepts very broadly so they could assign their own value to the literature. And as they go on through college, ideally this analysis will become more automatic; I don't think freshmen, whom I teach, should have to analyze as thoroughly as seniors, but they'd better start learning how to do so. That tool is probably one of the most important things students learn in college. Good point.

I think my responses are more in response to the righteousness of folks like SuperBaby. Perhaps I pointed fingers at you that I shouldn't have. I'm not sure what response would be reasonable here. As far as I can see, the commentary here is dizzyingly self-righteous and almost giddy with eager excitement about this girl being punished. My feeling was that somewhere between expulsion and laughing the whole thing off there was a middle ground. I still feel this way. This girl gets expelled - rightfully so - and now what? Sure she paid the price for her actions, as all the folks here seem to see, but does she see it? Will she find herself at some other school plagiarizing more carefully? SuperBaby, don't bother responding, I know your black and white view all too well.

One shouldn't blame others for their own behavior. Adults can control their own behavior.
I am zealous about her being expelled, because she's not a child. Is it wrong for me to expect adults to act like adults? If so, then we really should raise the age of adulthood to 30 or 40 (except for me, since I seem to be some sort of Super Genius for being aware of why things are wrong and should probably be declared King of the World). To know why plagiarism is wrong at 21 must make me some sort of God, eh?

Also, I've thought about it, and maybe it's not wise to fail students for plagiarism. Just fail them on the assignment. That would have definitely compelled me to plagiarize on assignments I procrastinated on. At least I would have had a chance to receive a good grade, and if I was caught, it wouldn't be any worse than not doing the assignment at all.

I applaud you on taking action on students that cheat, because that is what plagiarism is, cheating. If you had not taken action it would be unfair for the rest of the students who worked hard, using their own material. A college education in America in unfortunatly not a right, it is a privledge. There are too many people that worked their butts off for a diploma without cheating. If we are to keep cheaters in our campuses it takes away the hard work of those who earned their degrees legitimatly.

Addendum: I caught another plagiarizer today. Same assignment. Same stupid cut and paste.

-T.

You mean that they copied and paste the same material? If so, then plagiarists are truly just plain dumb.

Well, they didn't plagiarize the same material--same copy and paste method, I mean. I kid you not, I've had one student turn in a poem she liked, then plagiarized it again when it came time to write her own. I have a hard time feeling bad about that one.

I agree with your action fully, unfortunately I was the victim of a teacher actually thinking I plagerized a essay I wrote over George Washington. She said it was just too well written for an 8th grader so it must be plagerized. She said that it sounded like it came from some encyclopedia, unfortuanately for me, I never used one for that essay and unfortunately was too intemidated by her power of a teacher to go against it even though I didnt do what she said I did, so I just accepted the F and went on with it. Sucks to be her now.. considering I am vauled for my words on paper by english teachers and others as well... shit happens I guess...

Adios